Legislature(2003 - 2004)
02/11/2003 01:34 PM Senate TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 31-RAILROAD UTILITY CORRIDOR TO & IN CANADA
CHAIR COWDERY introduced former Representative Jeannette James
and invited her to come forward and join the Senate
Transportation Committee. Chair Cowdery has cosponsored similar
legislation and Representative James has been the prime sponsor
of similar legislation in the past.
CHAIR COWDERY explained that he planned to take testimony on SB
31 but it was not his intention to move the bill from committee
today. He said that transportation ties are very important to
Alaska and to the security of the United States. Chair Cowdery
learned, while speaking in St. Petersburg, that Russia is
concerned that China owns much of the land around the Panama
Canal. The Panama Canal would be a probable target if someone
wanted to jeopardize shipments to the East Coast of the United
States, another reason to move forward with SB 31.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES informed the committee a railroad
connection has been her passion over the last ten years. Former
Representative Red Swanson had a room full of information on the
railroad and passed the idea on to her. She gave the following
reasons to support SB 31.
First, Alaska is a resource state. The railroad is the reason
all of the people live in the Railbelt. Second, a railroad is
important to the security of the State of Alaska.
The Fairbanks North Star Borough's Railroad Task Force is
working to develop plans for out-of-grade crossings and other
delineations of the corridor passing through Fairbanks. The
Railroad Task Force pointed out a railroad going east would have
the advantage of being out of the earthquake danger zone. An
earthquake similar to the one in 1964 would cause more damage
today so an alternative transportation mode to move people and
products in and out of Alaska is important.
Statewide support for a better connection to the North American
rail system to access suppliers and markets for Alaskan products
is growing. A rail to road to water to air system would provide
an opportunity to create wealth in the state and reduce
dependence on the rest of the nation.
CHAIR COWDERY added if construction of a gas pipeline were to
begin, the pipeline pieces would probably be 54 inches in
diameter, 1 1/4 inches thick and 80 feet long. There is not a
truck in Alaska that can legally haul one joint. If trucks
receive an overweight permit, many bridges would not stand the
weight. The railroad could carry the pipe and supplies for the
pipeline.
RICHARD SCHMITZ, staff to Chairman Cowdery, introduced the
contents of the SB 31 packet and pointed to the corridor maps
delineating the proposed connection. The first map highlights
the rail sections into Fort Nelson and Chipmunk in British
Columbia. These are the existing extensions of the North
American rail system and almost definitely the location of a
connection. The British Columbian government built roadbed
through Chipmunk to Dease Lake, not far from the Yukon Territory
border. The branch leading to Fort Nelson is the most active
branch serving the tungsten mine, forestry and gas development.
He told members the Alaska Railroad prepared four maps showing
in detail the proposed route from Eielson Air Force Base to the
Canadian border. The route is well suited for rail construction;
there are no huge rivers, high mountains, seismic zones or
places with loose shale. The connection follows the Tintina
Trench, a highly mineralized area rich for development. This
natural trench can be seen from a satellite photo. The last two
maps give detail of the British Columbia Railroad system.
MR. SCHMITZ explained SB 31 provides for extending the Alaska
Railroad and allows the Alaska Railroad Corporation (ARRC) to
delineate a proposed railroad utility corridor to the Canadian
border. Language on page 3, Sec. 42.40.465, allows ARRC to
investigate extension of the Alaska Railroad to Fort Nelson.
The bill gives the corporation the ability to negotiate and
acquire land or interest in land in Canada. The bill does not
appropriate funds.
He explained that ARRC would delineate a 500-foot wide corridor,
a standard railroad corridor that will provide room for a depot,
loading station and locomotive repair facility. The State of
Alaska would give ARRC the state owned lands through fee simple
title once the delineation is complete. The state is not giving
away anything because the state owns the land and the state owns
ARRC so it will be transferring the land from one hand to the
other.
CHAIR COWDERY thanked Mr. Schmitz for the impressive bill
packet.
SENATOR WAGONER asked why the rail bed was established from
Chipmunk to Dease Lake.
MR. SCHMITZ said British Columbia owns the railroad in much the
same way as Alaska owns the Alaska Railroad. There was a plan
in the 1960s to extend the rail line to the Yukon Territory.
The project was abandoned due to a shortage of funds, however
British Columbia continues to own the right-of-way and the rail
bed.
SENATOR OLSON asked if a decision has been made to extend the
railroad from Whitehorse to Fort Nelson.
MR. SCHMITZ said the route would be determined later. It could
go either to Fort Nelson or to Chipmunk. He opined there was
more interest in going toward Fort Nelson because the overall
vision of this connection is to head toward the population
centers of the Midwest. Alaska currently has barge service
connections with the West Coast. At Prince Rupert, B.C.,
railcars are loaded onto a barge that goes to Whittier.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the Canadian National (CN) Railroad is
building or planning to build rail toward Fort Nelson. The CN
Railroad is integrated into the North American rail system.
Canadian interest in the Alaska Railroad connection has
accelerated recently so the project would be a cooperative
effort.
SENATOR OLSON asked if the rail route would be a Canadian
decision or an Alaskan-Canadian decision.
CHAIR COWDERY said he did not know.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said, "The decision as to where the route
will go will be depending upon the geology, the economics and
where the resources are and where the topography works." She
explained that when Governor Murkowski was in the U.S. Senate,
Rails to Resources legislation established a bilateral
commission of 12 Canadians and 12 U.S. citizens to conduct a
feasibility study. The Canadians are now getting interested and
that feasibility study will determine where the route ought to
be both economically and physically.
CHAIR COWDERY said a limit on grade must be considered.
Satellite imaging could determine a "paper" right-of-way and DNR
should not go to the expense of a physical survey. ARRC will
benefit from the rail line and should have funds available to
survey when the time comes to build the connection.
SENATOR OLSON asked if the natural gas pipeline route had been
decided.
CHAIR COWDERY said it would probably be the shortest route to
Chicago and may go through Calgary, Alberta. There is a proposed
pipeline route but he did not have it with him.
SENATOR THERRIAULT directed attention to language on page 3,
line 12, "under former AS 19.05.122," and said "and then of
course Section 2 of the bill, down at the bottom of page 3,
repeals that section." He asked "what are we repealing and why
are we referring to it after the fact?"
MR. SCHMITZ said, as he understood it, it repeals a statute that
addressed some of the ways land was acquired by the railroad.
This legislation would replace it. He said the railroad
representatives might know more about that.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she had a number of questions and wanted to
know who was going to testify.
CHAIR COWDERY said ARRC representatives were present and someone
was listening on line.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked that a railroad representative respond to
her questions also.
CHAIR COWDERY said perhaps Representative James could answer the
questions.
SENATOR LINCOLN referred to the maps and the proposed route
segment between Dot Lake and Tanacross and then through Tok
where it indicates railroad alignment has not been precisely
defined. She asked why that segment has not been defined.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES responded the original plan was to go to
Tetlin, then up and over into the Ladue River Valle, down the
Ladue River to Carmacks in the Yukon Territory and into Watson
Lake. There is Native land in the area and that is probably the
reason why the exact delineation of that corridor wasn't
determined at that time.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she suspected as much. She asked Chair
Cowdery how he would anticipate overcoming that land ownership,
if that is the case.
CHAIR COWDERY recognized there were privately owned lands to
deal with, which would be part of the negotiation if this
legislation goes forward.
SENATOR LINCOLN said it is a big section and three or four
communities could be impacted. She asked if an alternative route
could be taken so Native lands would be bypassed.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied:
If I might respond to that issue, it would not
necessarily be my impression that we need to not go
over the Native lands. We need to make that
advantageous for them for it to go over their lands.
Certainly it's the estimate on this issue is that it's
going to be beneficial not non-beneficial. That's yet
to be determined but that would be my evaluation.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if individual communities had been
contacted and whether they are working on the details or whether
that is not going to start until a later point of the project.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said that was premature at this time.
SENATOR LINCOLN said it is unknown whether the communities will
be amenable to the plan.
SENATOR LINCOLN said last year the Senate Resources Committee
held extensive hearings on this bill. There were questions
raised regarding the railroad going through the corridor for the
gas line. She read the intent language added to the previous
year's bill:
It is the intent of the legislature to reserve
interest to the state as necessary for the
construction, maintenance, operation and other
activities for or related to a gas pipeline in state
land that may be conveyed to the Alaska Railroad
Corporation under this act for the extension of the
Alaska Railroad to the border of Alaska and Canada.
She stated:
I remember a lot of dialogue on that particular intent
language which I supported. Since we don't know yet
about where we're going with the gas pipeline and the
corridor that's needed for that, we don't want to
already have approved something prematurely before we
know the needs in that area.
CHAIR COWDERY said the railroad representatives might be able to
expand on that. He said it is his belief the gas pipeline and
the railroad corridors will be very close to each other. It will
be necessary for supplying the pipeline construction.
1:58 p.m.
GENERAL PATRICK GAMBLE, President and Chief Executive Officer
Alaska Railroad Corporation, spoke in support of SB 31. He
informed members that half of the Alaska Railroad Corporation's
mission statement pertains to community and economic
development. The railroad is interested in looking at the big
picture in terms of economic development and pushing the
frontiers forward. The mission statement also says to be
profitable. The railroad takes a more detailed look when looking
at profitability. Community and economic development and
profitability are entwined.
GENERAL GAMBLE introduced former Senator Johne Binkley, Chairman
of the Board, Alaska Railroad Corporation, and Ms. Wendy
Lindskoog, Director of Community Relations.
GENERAL GAMBLE said the Alaska Railroad Corporation sent a
letter of support for SB 31. He amplified the substance of the
points of the letter as follows.
It's the operational business of the Alaska Railroad
to haul stuff and sometimes we forget that as we look
in the details of something as complex as what we're
about to discuss. We don't make a market in the Alaska
Railroad, we don't establish the requirements for
market, we satisfy requirements. We move goods and
services in between a supplier and the market and
that's where our expertise is, that's what we do and
that's what our expertise is in.
Our expertise is in planning. We are very good at
figuring our federal funding, we're very bad at
figuring our state funding because we don't get any
funding from the state. That's good news. What we
bring is the ability, through our eligibility for
certain federal funds, is the ability to go out and
capture those funds and bring them in and then turn
them into the state. And in a way, that's kind of the
railroad's dividend to the state is this movement of
dollars where it's appropriate and authorized.
We bring to the forefront engineering expertise and
then, of course, after it's all built, the operations
expertise to be able to run the railroad. So, when we
come and testify on a subject like this, this is our
domain....
We are motivated as a private corporation. In other
words, what we do, we do through our mission statement
that says - the mission statement that this body gave
to the railroad in the Transfer Act is to be
profitable. There's a formula that helps us to be
profitable and that formula has worked for 17 years
very, very well. And so you will hear from me an
attempt to try to steer the discussion back to that
formula that's worked so well in an attempt to
recreate that as we for the first time since 1985 look
to push the frontiers of the railroad out again....
GENERAL GAMBLE said the degree to which the formula is
disassembled and broken up could lead to dysfunction and a need
to come back to the legislature and correct it with the finances
of the state. The railroad wants to make net earnings, which are
plowed back into operation and maintenance. He concluded that
the railroad is pleased to be in the forefront in support of SB
31.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she was not opposed to some sort of
railroad extension but wants to make sure it is in the best
interest of the State of Alaska and look into the future for the
uses of those lands. She said last year's Senate Resource
Committee had long discussions on the use of the land.
She underscored two things in the railroad's letter of January
24th. First was the land ownership question. In the bill as
written, the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) shall convey
those lands to the Alaska Railroad on a fee simple basis. She
said she had some problems with the 500-foot wide corridor and
difficulty with the idea of putting more lands into fee simple
title to the railroad.
Second, she addressed two sections in the bill. Language on
page 2, line 19, begins with the conveyance and the
corporation's power of eminent domain. Language on page 3,
beginning with line 13 states, "If the Alaska Railroad informs
the Department of Natural Resources in writing that the land is
necessary for use as a utility corridor, the department shall
convey that land." She stated, "It is just saying yea, we have
use for it and the department simply conveys that land under
that first section I spoke of." She asked for General Gambles'
response to that.
SENATOR LINCOLN noted the second part of the letter from the
corporation stated concerns about additional maintenance and
operations expenses. She stressed she had concerns about that
and did not know what the railroad's concerns were.
GENERAL GAMBLE said Senator Lincoln had hit upon two essential
elements that are of similar and equal concern to the railroad.
First, land conveyance is key to the success of the railroad.
During the history of building railroads, lands adjacent to the
track were conveyed to the railroads and the land and the
minerals on those lands allowed the railroads to be successful
before they started moving the heavy freight and passengers.
The Transfer Act of 1985 conveyed land to the railroad in order
for that land to be revenue producing and is an important
element of the Alaska Railroad.
The State of Alaska said the railroad would move passengers as
well as freight and therefore ARRC cannot maximize the bottom
line in the same way as a standard railroad. There are no other
passenger and freight railroads running regular service in the
country. The operational ratio of the railroad is close to a
dollar in and a dollar out. The revenue from real estate allows
the railroad to pay the operations and maintenance bills without
having to come back to the state. ARRC is concerned the
railroad will run into financial trouble without real estate.
GENERAL GAMBLE pointed out there is about 70 acres of land with
each mile of the railroad. The railroad leases 4,000 plus acres
of the 36,000 acres originally conveyed on a fee simple basis.
That lease contributes significantly because real estate is very
favorable to the railroad. Net earnings added to the
depreciation are put back in a capital program that fixes
things, buys things, pays salaries and allows the railroad to
receive matching money for federal funds. Federal funds pay for
construction while net earnings pay for operations and
maintenance. The railroad expects when these rail lines are
linked in, Canada revenue would begin to move up and down the
line but the guarantee is the steady stream of net earnings as a
result of real estate.
Second, the railroad exclusivity enhances safety to the required
federal limits and allows the railroad to operate uninterrupted,
impeded or disturbed by the pressures from the growth along a
rail line. Seventy percent of Alaska's population growth is
along the Railbelt and there will be significant development and
growth along the extension of the rail line to Canada in 50
years. At-grade crossings are the number one killers in the
Lower 48. The railroad cannot control crossings if it just has a
priority right-of-way. If the railroad does not have control,
many roads will cross the track, which slows trains down and
increases the risks. ARRC, in cooperation with the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF), would like to see
planning for separate grades where the tracks cross the roads.
SENATOR LINCOLN requested her friend, former Senator John
Binkley, to come forward to address a question. She said as
Chairman of the Board, it is Senator Binkley's responsibility to
move the railroad in the direction requested by the board
members. Some legislators expressed interest in pushing this
legislation forward. She asked Senator Binkley if he would have
requested this legislation be introduced as a top priority for
the railroad had this plan not come from the legislature.
JOHN BINKLEY, Chairman of the Board of Directors, Alaska
Railroad Corporation, said one of the primary missions of ARRC
is to facilitate economic development in the State of Alaska.
He explained:
To the extent that we can expand the railroad or
enhance service to different areas or work with
communities, we want to do what we can to promote
economic development and enhance the opportunities for
Alaskans in pursuing economic development. So to that
extent, we certainly would pursue it to the extent
that we could realize that it does take a significant
amount of statute changes and specific legislation to
actually make this happen. We're encouraged by the
chairman and the legislative members who want to move
this issue forward and give us an opportunity to
expand the rail line.
In the original legislation that created the Alaska
Railroad by Congress, I believe in 1914, they'd
envisioned a thousand miles of rail within Alaska to
actually develop Alaska at that time. We've not met
that potential, we have only about five hundred miles
of mainline rail that we operate on and so we think
that the original intent of Congress and really Alaska
is to develop some of the areas of Alaska with rail.
It's a method of transportation that serves
constituencies well in those areas. It's low impact.
It allows for the development of some of the natural
resources in that area and I think it's an excellent
way to develop the resources in those areas so we'd
certainly be supportive of that.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she did not hear him answer whether this
would have been one of his priorities.
She referred to Senate Resources Committee meeting minutes from
the previous year. She said there were a lot of questions about
the 500 foot corridor and very strong language about giving the
railroad an exclusive right to a 500 foot corridor when maybe it
should be a 100 foot corridor and maybe not even exclusive.
There was a question about transferring the subsurface mineral
rights to the railroad instead of for use by Alaska. She asked
if the Board of Directors had addressed those concerns. She had
not received a copy of the board's response to these concerns.
She addressed Chair Cowdery and said she would appreciate a
response to these legitimate concerns from last year, which are
still legitimate.
TAPE 03-03, SIDE B
SENATOR LINCOLN questioned:
On page 3, line 23, we as a legislature are saying
that the corporation may acquire land or interests in
land in Canada as the corporation considers
appropriate for the development, construction.... Why
would we give you the authority to acquire land in
another country?
SENATOR BINKLEY responded to Senator Lincoln's previous question
to say that the bill died in committee so the board has not
specifically addressed that piece of legislation. SB 31 was just
recently introduced so the board can take it up and supply her
with specific responses.
SENATOR LINCOLN said, "Because it is the same piece of
legislation minus the letter of intent."
SENATOR BINKLEY said that is correct.
He said the width of the right-of-way corridor could be debated.
The optimum width is something people could disagree on but come
to a compromise on. The ability to have exclusive use of that
right-of-way and to be able to control the access to the rail
line is important for the safe operation of the railroad. Where
the crossings are placed is of great concern.
He said it is not the intent of ARRC in any way to inhibit the
construction of a proposed natural gas pipeline that may be in
the same corridor. He said, in his opinion, the intent language
as Senator Lincoln had read it would not be objectionable to the
railroad.
The alignment of the proposed railroad corridor, following the
Tanana Valley east, pulls out of the narrow area by Cathedral
Bluffs and expands out past Dot Lake leading toward Tanacross
and Tok. The specific right-of-way alignment in that area is not
critical. The railroad is very sensitive to grade issues, it is
important to stay on level grade or in the low country if
possible. The valley widens out where the Tok River comes in
from the south so there is a lot of latitude where the railroad
can move to the south before reaching Tetlin. Should the
railroad proceed with this plan, ARRC intends to analyze the
ownership of the land and the environmental conditions in that
area and route the rail line where it would have the least
impact on the environmental conditions and avoid any land
ownership conflicts.
CHAIR COWDERY said some four-lane highway rights-of-way in
mountainous areas require cuts and fills that probably exceed
500 feet. A railroad needs stations, repair facilities and
sidetracks. He asked what the present railroad right-of-way is.
SENATOR BINKLEY said the right-of-way is typically 200 feet. In
areas requiring deep fills, the right-of-way would potentially
need to exceed that.
CHAIR COWDERY said satellite mapping would identify those areas.
He asked if the fiber optic cables on the railroad right-of-way
generated revenue.
GENERAL GAMBLE answered fiber optic cable is an important source
of real estate revenue to ARRC.
SENATOR THERRIAULT referred to three areas of concern. He noted
where the proposed right-of-way reaches Cathedral Bluffs and
turns into a dashed line on the map, "the dashed line indicates
the area where the railroad alignment has not been precisely
defined." In the North Pole or Eielson area down to Delta
Junction, much of that routing is on the west side of the Tanana
River so impacts to communities are of little concern.
However, when the right-of-way leaves Eielson and goes through
the Salcha area, a 500-foot right-of-way has a lot of potential
impact to his constituents.
When the right-of-way swings down, comes into the Delta Junction
area, crosses the river to serve the community and cuts though
Delta Junction proper, a 500-foot right-of-way would be of great
concern. He asked if that area was already specifically
designated.
He then said in the agricultural area, people have large tracks
of land and the only possible corridor would be across their
property. Those people have some notification that something has
gone on in the past. He said he was not sure if that right-of-
way was relinquished.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES offered the following background
information. In the late 1970s, the delineation of this railroad
corridor was done by air and a centerline was put on the map.
In 1974, DOTPF was told to identify the cost of acquiring
private interests in that specific corridor. DOTPF spent $7500
and came up with that cost estimate and a year later erased the
route from the maps by withdrawing the permits. Then legislation
required DOTPF to put the right-of-way back on the map. It is
just a centerline on a map with absolutely no authority, real
boundaries or size.
She said the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) did a high
resolution mapping over flight all the way to the Canadian
border, down the river and down the highway two years ago. The
mapping will provide information on the topography and geology
in that area. In the event money became available to the
railroad, SB 31 would authorize the railroad to determine where
the route should be and then come to the state with that
information. Putting this route on the map notices anyone with
interest in that land that this might be the place for a
railroad.
SENATOR THERRIAULT pointed out the railroad currently operates
in a right-of-way that averages 200 feet wide. He asked why the
right-of-way would have to be at least 500 feet in those areas.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the transportation and utility
corridor right-of-way from Fairbanks to the Seward Peninsula was
originally 500 feet. In the future, this proposed transportation
and utility corridor might contain the rail, high power electric
transmission lines, pipelines or fiber optic cables. The issue
is to go across an area where there is nothing developed and
identify a 500-foot transportation and utility corridor for the
future without encroachments.
SENATOR THERRIAULT expressed concern about the language "shall
be at least 500 feet." He said if transmission lines, a
pipeline, road and rail need to be included, the corridor needs
to be extra wide. In the portion of this right-of-way that has
development there already are transmission lines, there already
is a highway and one pipeline. Mandating that it be 500 feet
will increase the concerns of the people that already live there
and potentially cause problems. Getting a 500-foot swathe
through Delta Junction is going to be difficult. It will
probably have to be something less than 500 feet as the right-
of-way goes through Delta Junction and perhaps through the
Salcha area. The wording says "at least 500 feet" and has no
allowance for these sensitive areas where it makes good sense
for it to be something less.
GENERAL GAMBLE said it is amazing to see how the 200-foot right-
of-way the railroad maintains has been squeezed as a result of
development. Snowmobile trails develop in remote areas alongside
the track and sometimes there is desire to convert the trails to
roads. The 200-foot corridor is wide enough to put in a second
track for a siding or a double track. Standard railroad policy
for safety is to designate a margin so nothing can get closer
than 75 feet to a train. The railroad gets pressure to yield on
that 75-foot margin. A 200-foot corridor is needed for rail
purposes and has worked well. A transportation and utility
corridor with rail, road, pipeline and power line requires
additional space. He asked, "Is this part of a system we're
developing here or are we trying to whittle this down to a
minimalist approach to a very complex problem?"
SENATOR THERRIAULT said he understood development will squeeze
in but there are certain sections where the railroad is trying
to squeeze into developed areas. Unless they are going to buy up
huge portions of privately owned property, there is going to be
opposition and concern from communities. The right-of-way
doesn't have to be 500 feet from point A to point B; flexibility
would give communities a little bit of comfort. Delta Junction
is against the river and there probably is not 500 feet between
the river and the community in some portions unless the right-
of-way was to be placed on the other side of the community.
SENATOR THERRIAULT anticipated a lot of concerns about going
through Salcha. He said Salcha has flooding problems and, during
his campaign, his opponent alleged, "the federal government was
just fine if they were flooded out because they wanted to move
people off the property so the railroad could sweep in and take
it from them anyway."
CHAIR COWDERY ascertained the communities are not going to want
to be bypasses and will work out a solution on the right-of-way
width as the plan develops.
GENERAL GAMBLE referred to the community effort underway in
Fairbanks and said that ARRC's policy is to work with
communities and address issues in great detail.
SENATOR WAGONER asked the approximate cost per mile of
construction of new bed and rail.
GENERAL GAMBLE said they normally would use a range of $3 to $8
million for a project like this. This corridor was first
surveyed in World War II. Surveying the center of the track line
will determine cost. A reasonable estimate would be $5 million
per mile.
SENATOR BINKLEY said ARRC has the same shareholders as DNR and
the State of Alaska. If land is transferred from one entity to
another, it really is to benefit the same people.
SENATOR LINCOLN noted they have a different Board of Directors.
She referred to the earlier comment that this corridor is not in
a seismic zone. Recently there was a fairly big earthquake in
that area. She asked if they had looked at how that fault line
ran in relation to this corridor.
GENERAL GAMBLE said ARRC has looked around Tok because of an
incident there but it has not looked closely at the other areas.
A fault line runs up through Denali National Park on the way to
Fairbanks and over to Tok. He was not familiar with the fault
lines that may run in the other areas.
SENATOR LINCOLN said that might be something to look at.
GENERAL GAMBLE said absolutely.
2:43 p.m.
SENATOR LINCOLN said Governor Murkowski spoke about seeking the
support of the Bush Administration for a rail extension to Fort
Greeley but did not mention this project in his State of the
State speech. She asked if Governor Murkowski had pulled away
from this project, while seeking support from the President of
the United States for the extension, why did he not also say he
was seeking support for the funding of this project. She pointed
out they should be looking at the bigger picture for Alaska and
how to get revenue coming in. At $5 million per mile, the state
better be looking to the federal government she said.
CHAIR COWDERY said, "I'm in the Senate and not in the
Administration so I don't know what his motivation was on these
statements." He understood the Governor was supportive of this
project.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the connection to Canada is
encompassed in the federal legislation, Rails to Resources. The
bilateral commission of Canadian and American citizens will
generate a feasibility study and the rail connection is going to
be based on that study. Millions of dollars per mile are not
going to be spent to build a rail line that does not have the
ability to pay for itself over time.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES continued by saying Senator Ted Stevens
asked the railroad to estimate the cost of the rail line to the
Fort Greeley Military Reservation when there were talks about
the missile base. The study of a highway bridge at Flag Hill
includes consideration of a combination rail and highway bridge
and is a step towards getting across the Tanana River into the
Blair Lakes area. She questioned, "If they're going to put in a
bridge, what [are] the synergies of doing both rail and road in
the event that we do go ahead and cross the river there?" She
thought rail access through Army and Air Force Bases and the
Fort Wainwright Military Reservation must be considered
seriously because of security reasons.
CHAIR COWDERY clarified the feasibility study will answer the
question of whether the railroad connection is beneficial to
Alaska and America.
SENATOR WAGONER said Chair Cowdery referred to a 54-inch piece
of pipe that was 1 1/4 inches thick and 80 feet long. He asked
what kind of stress that would put on the current railroad
system.
GENERAL GAMBLE replied, "That's a great question and it gets
right to one of our strategic planning elements." The railroad
is preparing for the future and upgrading the current railroad
is the number one priority with annual appropriations to insure
the main track is ready to haul the weights expected. ARRC has
an enormous bridge program underway that will take several
years. Key sidings are being built and upgraded to allow the
heaviest locomotives and trains to pull off. When this
connection goes forward, the whole line will be ready.
2:50 p.m.
CHAIR COWDERY asked if the railroad is designed to haul heavier
weights than the present highways and bridges.
FORMER SENATOR BINKLEY answered definitely. The new locomotives
weigh 420,000 pounds spread over six axels. The railroad is
upgrading to a standard 115-pound rail and ties that are more
substantial to carry these heavy loads. Trains can haul
substantially higher loads than on a highway. The question
would be the number of joints of pipe to haul per car.
CHAIR COWDERY said he had the weight of one joint of pipe in his
files and would share that information.
SENATOR WAGONER said he knew what kind of stress that weight
would put on a highway. Without special equipment, it should not
be permitted. He had been watching the railroad replace ties and
upgrade the track.
GENERAL GAMBLE noted the railroad is looking at increasing the
number of concrete ties. A new grade of concrete offers great
strength in a concrete railroad tie and has a life span that
exceeds the forty-year product life of hardwood ties.
He noted the State Historical Preservation Office declared rail
bridges over 50 years old as historic. The railroad has to
conform to certain state regulations to capture the appearance
of the original bridge before repairs. The railroad works well
with the State Historical Preservation Office and the projects
are moving along.
SENATOR THERRIAULT mentioned there are stretches of highway in
the Fairbanks North Star Borough where the road right-of-way has
been there for 20 or 30 years. Now, with the climate change,
there are stretches that have developed a little dip. He asked
if the rail line was experiencing dips.
FORMER SENATOR BINKLEY said seasonal freezing and thawing causes
a lot of problems and takes a tremendous amount of money. At the
beginning of every winter and every spring, ARRC shims and
realign the track to take care of the problem. There may be
areas where the permafrost is starting to melt but it is handled
during the course of normal maintenance.
ARRC is conducting an economic analysis on changing to concrete
ties and heavier rail. Currently, every three-foot section of
rail weighs 115 pounds and a 141-pound rail that is much deeper,
heavier and stronger is being considered. The heavier rail allow
ties to be spaced less frequently and will carry heavier loads.
CHAIR COWDERY said the Bullet Train travels at speeds of 120-130
miles per hour on concrete ties and does not have some of the
lumbering effect. He appreciated that ARRC is looking at that
technology.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES pointed out the purchase of the 500 miles
of Alaska track for 22 million dollars was a deal.
FORMER SENATOR BINKLEY said it was a bargain.
CHAIR COWDERY confirmed his intention to hold SB 31 and gather
answers to some questions. He added when the bill is heard
again, DOTPF and other departments will be present to express
opinions.
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